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Sep 092010
 

I know this isn’t Spurs related but it is something I would like to discuss.

Hopefully this article attracts the attention of some of the Rangers and Celtic fans. I was watching Sky Sports News last night when I saw that the Old Firm proposed switch to the English Premier League has once again been ruled out. Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing them play in England but I don’t think they have any right to go into the Premiership without earning it.

The SPL standard is nowhere near that of the EPL so if you ask me winning the SPL year in year out still doesn’t earn you a place in England’s elite. Part of me would find it exciting seeing the Old Firm in England and if that were to ever happen then they should be prepared to start in League 1 or even 2 and prove they deserve a place in the Premiership by winning promotions. There are arguments because we have let Welsh teams play in England and now Rangers and Celtic feel they deserve the same treatment.

I can understand from the fans point of view that it would be great to see them playing in a top league to see if they can hold their own, personally I think they would get ripped apart in the Premiership, 10 years ago I think the gap was a lot smaller and they might have stood a better chance. The financial gain would be massive because of the world wide TV exposure the EPL gets Rangers and Celtic want a slice of the pie.

If you go back 10 years the quality of the Scottish league was of a higher standard, the likes of Di Canio, Larsson and Laudrup used to grace the SPL. Fair enough that Rangers and Celtic dominate the SPL but the financial power of the two clubs compared to the rest of the SPL is startling. You could argue we had the same problem here in England with the top 4 for a few years but at least there is a sign that things will change.

There is no doubt that both Old Firm clubs are massive clubs and probably deserve to play in a better league but the harsh reality is that they are Scottish and therefore have to play in that league. If there were to come down to England then let’s say Hearts started to dominate the SPL would we then have to let them move to the EPL too? Where would we draw the line?

So let’s have a small debate here, keep it nice and let’s see what people think, would you like to see Rangers and Cetlic here in England? If there are Rangers and Celtic fans reading this how would you feel about your teams coming to the EPL?

  57 Responses to “Rangers and Celtic Still Want Premiership Move”

  1. if celtic or rangers joined the epl, they would surely be top 6 contenders. all they’re lacking is the television money. they both have massive stadiums and massive global fan bases, they would def compete with the likes of liverpool, spurs, etc.!!

    • I think it would take them 4 or 5 years to become top 6 contenders, their current squads are not good enough in my opinions. Newcastle have massive fan base and look what happend to them.

  2. Let the Scots feed off our Premier league cash?! No way. They’d be crap at first but with their huge support they would overtake us in no time and we’d never qualify for the CL again. The only reason they’re so big is because they’ve have useless opposition. Now all of a sudden they want to feed off our cash! In my opinion the Welsh teams shouldn’t be in our league so two wrongs don’t make a right in this case. The premier league is strong enough already, so they would be the only ones to benefit.

  3. I am from Scotland, and a Rangers fan. Personally I would like to see the SFA and the other footballing powers in Scotland do their best to sort out the footballing situation here before Rangers or Celtic considering a move to the EPL. We need to get kids playing football, tell kids to play with skill rather than as hatchet men, and get good coaches to set up, and run football schools throughout the country.

    The EPL is not the way for either of the 2 Glasgow giants, surely going down South to plummet the clubs into even further debt cannot be the way forward? I’d rather have a club run sensibly than spending mass amounts of money where it is not needed, Rangers have won the SPL 2 seasons in a row without spending a penny on a new player, introducing wage caps, and getting rid of un-needed squad players.

  4. So you assume, as is the common misconception of every English football supporter that Celtic and the Huns are wee small teams and when letting them in they would become cannon fodder to teams like Spurs.

    Take a step back down off the mole hill you’ve elevated yourself on. Do you not think for an instant that the quality of player at both clubs would far exceed what is there at present.

    The reason why they are not in already is because teams like your own are afraid of letting them in. Thankfully it wont be teams like yours that will make decisions that will create a new league for them to compete on an even playing field. i.e. equal TV deals or independent club specific deals. It will be media driven and will happen.

  5. It won’t happen. It’s been completely written off by the Premier League.

  6. Celtic and even the huns are bigger clubs than Tottenham, there is no doubt about that.

    You say we would get ripped apart in the EPL, true, however with the added financial clout and exposure being in the EPL would bring. I would say only 1 or 2 (I am thinking Jaurez / Kayal, haven’t seen enough) would get a place in Celtic’s first team, therefore you are comparing apples with well broccolli.

    Our team would be much stronger than it currently is and I believe that in 3 – 5 years we would be competing at the top table with Chelsea and Man U.

    Our worldwide appeal is huge, I don’t think the English understand how huge it actually is.

    One day you will find out, of that I am sure.

    PS – I am a Celtic fan.

  7. I think you touched on one of the main points yourself, a point alot of EPL supporters conveniently forget.
    Fair enough Scottish football as a whole is inferior and as things stand Celtic and Rangers would have a hard time of it, but, and it’s a big but, what kind of teams do you think both teams would be able to field if they had the benefit of over 200 million pounds in their coffers over the past few years.
    As a Celtic supporter I realise that Tony Mobray was a terible mistake, hopefully one that we will recover from this season, but if you look at Strachans achievement before him, not only winning the SPL ‘year in year out’ as you put it, but reasonable success in Europe beating teams like AC, Benfica and your own mighty Man U in the process. The man at the helm before Gordon was of course O’Neill, who again had significant success in Europe reaching a European final, something Rangers achieved a few short years ago, though I’m sure you don’t need reminding of that, but again O’Neill done this beating teams like Liverpool and B’burn Rovers (men against boys, AYE RIGHT!!lol!) along the way, and both managers achieved this with a fraction of the money any EPL team takes for granted.
    Both teams have massive global fan bases and between the TV monies and the money gained from better sponsorship deals and merchandising it would mean massive changes to both clubs, allowing both teams to attract world class players and being able to offer them the kind of money that they demand.
    Celtic playing in the EPL would attract full houses week in week out, and how many present EPL clubs can say they get more than 60,000 home supporters at every home game?
    And IMHO Celtic wouldn’t be long in increasing their capacity if we were playing in the EPL!

    I think most teams in England as a whole realise this and that’s why they’re hell bent on keeping us out, after all turkeys don’t vote for christmas!

  8. The gap between Rangers & Celtic and the EPL teams isn’t as big as English football fans seem to think.

    There is clearly a gap between Celtic & Rangers and the top English teams but bear in mind Celtic have beaten Manchester United & Liverpool when they played them in the Champions League. Rangers got to a Uefa cup final a few years ago too.

    The reason for the difference and the growing gap is that English teams get more money than Scottish teams becasue of the cash-cow known as the EPL. Money buys success. The English league has money the SPL doesnt.

    I mean £7 mill for Steven Fletcher?

    Rangers and Celtic are massive teams with huge fanbases worldwide (unlike teams like Stoke, West Ham, Blackpool, Birmingham etc.) If they were given the stupid amount of money that EPL teams were getting they would be fighting with the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City & Spurs in a couple of years.

  9. Rangers and Celtic have a bigger ground than us and more support. This is because they have made they’re name out of destroying sub standard opponents. In terms of players, manager and finances Spurs are way ahead. I agree if they were to come to the Premier league they would become a force, but that’s the whole point they can’t become good teams without us. It’s been talked about for years and never happened and never will.

  10. Why on earth would we want Rangers and Celtic in the Premier League? They have no right to join – even if they were to work their way up from the Rymans Diadora BlueSquare League North Division Five (or whatever). They are from Scotland. They owe their existence, their fame and their fan base to their exploits in Scotland. They have a duty to continue to play in the Scottish leagues.

    Old Firm fans might cite the likes of Swansea and Cardiff as reasons why they too should be allowed to play in England. But the analogy is redundant. Swansea and Cardiff have always competed in the English leagues. Therefore, unlike Rangers and Celtic, they haven’t enjoyed the advantage of 100 years virtual monopoly of success afforded them by playing in a lesser league (and therefore building a formidable fan base – and consequent financial muscle). Old Firm fans might also cite Berwick Rangers – an English club playing in the Scottish Leagues. Again, though, the analogy is redundant. Berwick only play in Scotland for geographical and economic reasons. They are a tiny club, on the border with Scotland, with very limited resources. It makes far more sense for them not to incur the far greater travel costs that would result from them playing in the English leagues.

    If Celtic and Rangers must desert Scottish football, like rats deserting a sinking ship, then they can, if they like, help set up the long touted Atlantic League, along with the bigger Dutch, Scandinavian, Belgian and Portuguese clubs. But we don’t need them in the Premier League. Ignore all the guff about their inclusion being financially attractive to Premier League chairmen. The Premier league is already by far the biggest global TV draw in football. The inclusion of Celtic and Rangers won’t change that and won’t result in any significant increase in global TV money. Premier League stadiums are also all (bar one or two clubs) full for more than 90% of matches. So two games against Old Firm opposition will not have any great impact on gate receipts either.

    On the flip side, most Premier League chairmen understand that the inclusion of Celtic and Rangers in the Premier League would, depending on the stature of their respective clubs, a) threaten their continued presence in the Premier League b) threaten their ability to qualify for Europe regularly c) threaten their ability to win silverware regularly – all of which far outweigh the limited financial benefits of inviting the Old Firm to the party. Voting for the inclusion of the Old Firm would therefore be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas. It’s not going to happen – especially since a majority of 14 of the 20 clubs would be required.

  11. the fact is if celtic were to join the english league we would outgrow everyone. celtic would in time need a stadium to hold anything between 75,000 to 90,000 fans for games against man utd, liverpool, chelsea, spurs & arsenal. the interest would be huge…so many fans are bored of the whole set up in the spl etc yet we can still attract 60,000 to certain games. at the end of the day it is rupert murdochs ball and if he decides that people arent tuning in to watch the might hull versus blackburn then im sure it will be up to him to decide who kicks his ball. if he pulled his investment out the epl would be in ruins. celtic live within their means and are the best run club in the uk. £4m debt compared to the £500m to £700m the top clubs in england have. what would be do with the extra tv revenue and sponsorship? it would be frightning how big we would become. why not start a uk cup and take it from there. good luck to spurs for the season…i have them at 25/1. fantastic football team & club…would love to see them at parkhead in a european game in the future

  12. ^^^^^^^^Meant to say that all bar one or two Premier League stadiums are full to more than 90% of capacity.

  13. can i also add…..it is outrages that these clubs are even allowed to kick a ball…in england or the champions league. talk about unfair! any other buisness on the planet would be dead and buried by now…i know what i would be doing if i was in charge of a bank and owed £700m by a football club. pretty sure celtic would win the champions league if we were allowed to borrow £700m to buy players and build stadiums. no we’ll just do it with our own cash. the fair way!!

  14. @ Tim,
    The old firm are not famous for destroying sub standard opposition, it is not possible to make a name this way. If this was the case all smaller leagues in europe would boast teams as massive as the old firm. They’re probably famous for all the wrong reasons, but its generaly for things the clubs are associated with. You have maybe herd it said before that the old firm are not football clubs, they are institutions. Also, perhaps Celtic’s rise to fame began when they became the first british team to win the european cup before it was renamed the champions league.

  15. JimB

    sorry mate but i refuse to believe that, i watch many a game in the epl and crowds are down. especially at games like west brom v stoke….bolton v west ham…no way these stadiums are full or anywhere near 90% full. even the mighty man utd have witness a downturn in attendances. its only a matter of time before things come crashing down in england…in 2 years time teams are not allowed to enter the champions league if they are in debt. would love to see how all these english clubs would survive if they had to depend on their fans etc and not the bank manager

  16. coxie

    well said, it would be a start. maybe the league cup though as interest seems to have gone both north and south in it.

    no 1 is asking to go straight into the epl. too many great historic clubs in the championship. if we are to join england we have to earn our place in the epl

  17. With the influx of money the Premier league has received over the years it has played a major part in the reduction of quality in the SPL. Players who would normally sign for Celtic or Rangers with the chances of silverware and european football end up going to teams such as Stoke or Blackburn purely for more money, and who can really blame them i suppose, who would turn down a job offering more money. This is a vicious cycle because the quality doesnt come to the SPL and then noone wants to come because the league is so poor. In saying this though the last decade has been rather fruitful for both Celtic and Rangers. Both reaching the Uefa Cup final and several appearances in the last 16 of the CL by both teams. With Celtic only narrowly losing out in a place in the last 8 by a moment of brilliance by Kaka, a few years back. Even the national squad had been improving beating France has to be mentioned of course, twice. Great improvement in the rankings had us only 2 places behind England in the fifa rankings a few years back. However 2 bad managerial choices in Tony Mowbray and George Burley set things back. When things go awry it costs money to fix them and the SPL lacks this greatly, even more so the smaller teams.
    All in all, sure i would love to compete against your Man Utd’s Arsenal Liverpools etc week in week out but these things would come with sacrifices such as little or no European action and minimal if any silverware, it would be a huge risk. Especially financially, sure we would have alot more exposure and the money received in Tv rights would be amazing. You only have to look at the state of some of the finances of certain clubs down their to see it is a minefield in cases, especially considering Celtic and Rangers would have to spend alot in a short space of time to get up to standard. However with both our fan bases especially Celtics who have a HUGE following in North America due to both Scottish and Irish links, given time would without doubt be reaching for the top end of the Premierleague. Peter Lawwel Celtics Chief Ex, said if the club ever moved to the Premierleague the first thing he would do is extend the size of the stadium to 80,000+. In summary if we both left the SPL it would probably collapse into oblivion because what Tv network would want to air the league without Celtic and Rangers in it? Individually though it could be amazing for both clubs, to finally free the chains and see us reach heights we deserve. Certainly more deserved than teams like Chelsea and Man City. However as previously said who outside the top 4-5 would want to see us in there and jeopardizing their positions in the league.

  18. No7 – You are confused about Liverpool’s and Man Utd’s debt. They aren’t in debt because, as you imply, they’ve been buying players and building stadiums. They’re in debt because they were pounced on by American carpetbaggers who saw the opportunity for a fast buck and therefore bought the two clubs by means of a leveraged buyout. If you don’t know what that means, let me explain: The Glazers didn’t have the funds to buy Man Utd so they went to the banks and borrowed the money. Banks require security or collateral. In a leveraged buyout, the security or collateral is the actual company that is purchased with the borrowed money. It might all seem very incestuous but the upshot of it is that the Glazers have, in effect, placed their own family debt on Man Utd. Furthermore, they are bleeding Man Utd dry in order to be able to service that family debt – to the tune of some £60 million per annum. Similar story for Liverpool, Gillette and Hicks. So these clubs aren’t gaining the unfair advantage you claim at all. Quite the opposite.

    As to other Premier League clubs in debt, I see nothing wrong with Arsenal borrowing money to build a new stadium. That’s what well run companies do – borrow or raise (by share issue) money to grow. So long as the capital investment is fully justified (and with Arsenal selling out every game and comfortably servicing their debt while still making massive profits, their investment in the new stadium is most certainly justified), there is nothing wrong with taking on debt finance.

    As to Chelsea, their debt is only a technicality. The money they “owe” is to their owner. In that respect, they are no different to Celtic, who have their own benefactor in Dermot Desmond (albeit that Desmond’s contributions to Celtic are on nothing like the scale of Abramovich’s to Chelsea).

  19. premiership status has to be earned and anyway i think they d struggle to beat west ham

  20. No7 – follow this link to see for yourself the percentage of capacity used in Premier League matches.

    Besides, if money was the only concern, why wouldn’t the Premier League invite Ajax, Real Madrid, AC Milan and Bayern Munich to join? Wait……they already have…..it’s called the Champions League. 😉

    There’s really little point arguing further about this, fella. The Premier League have repeatedly rejected the notion of Celtic and Rangers joining (by whatever route) – by a whopping, great majority every time. There is no way that things will change so drastically that, all of a sudden, a whopping, great majority will be in favour of the Old Firm’s inclusion.

  21. JimB

    we are a plc, dermot desmond does not put cash into the club for us to buy anything. he buys shares. he is the major shareholder. we do not owe desmond any cash? i see your point regarding debt but to me it is still debt. i think the man utd and liverpool fans would say they same. at the moment it is their debt and unless someone else buys them thats what it will stay. roll on a debt free champions league. then we’ll see what clubs are able to compete when they can no longer give a player £80,000 a week

    quick question mate….do you think the clubs who voted against the old firm have more of a say than their benefactor rupert murdoch?

    got to go out so if you get back to me a will reply later, thanks

  22. JimB

    You say they have no right. Celtic and the Huns are being held back due to demographics. In that they cannot compete at the highest level in the uk because they are based in Scotland. They are both bigger clubs than Spurs thoughout the world – they both have better european pedigree and history.

    Because they are based in Scotland (which is as I understand part of the uk) they cannot compete in the same financial market with the likes of Spurs or even Blackpool for instance. In no other industry does this happen. And as they keep telling us now Football is all about Money these days – so tell me why they do not have a right to compete.

    So the issue is not entirely sport based then is it – is it really a racial issue.

  23. JimB

    just noticed your link.

    we all know attendances given can be misleading due to season tickets. i prefer to judge by what empty seats i can see on the tv 🙂

  24. With regard to comment 2.

    What do you mean your Premier League cash?

    The money dished out to the Premier League is from the Sky TV deal.

    Celtic and Rangers fans contribute as much if not more than most English clubs fans in Sky subscriptions.

    With regard to the point that the Old Firm should not be admitted directly to the Premier division I can only say that’s fair comment.

    Scotland is too small a country to support 40 professional football teams, and the crowd at Celtic or Rangers in any given week exceeds the size of the crowds at all the other games combined.

    Of course we can only be admitted to the English leagues with the goodwill and invitation by the English.

    I would like to see top class football at Celtic Park every other week, but the chances of it happening don’t seem very likely.

    But who knows!

  25. Anyway there’s hardly any point in debating if it will happen. DD says it will and that’s good enough for me – it will happen. In doing so – the Huns might just (not that i care but it would be quite funny) pip Spurs at the post and remain in the next season and spurs go where they belong in the championship league.

  26. No7 – it is common knowledge that Dermot Desmond funded Celtic’s loan of Robbie Keane last season: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Celtic-pull-off-shock-as.6033282.jp

    And yes, no two ways about it, Man Utd and Liverpool are in debt up to their eyeballs. But I repeat, it is quite wrong to suggest that they got that way by “buying players and building stadiums” and that they are gaining an unfair advantage. As already pointed out, the truth is quite the opposite. Both clubs have had their spending ability severely curtailed by the debt foisted on them by their American owners. That’s why Man Utd and Liverpool fans are so fiercely determined to be rid of their parasitical yanks.

    And yes, I do believe that the 20 Premier League clubs have more of a say on the Old Firm’s potential inclusion than Rupert Murdoch. You are forgetting that Sky needs the Premier league far, far more than the Premier League needs Sky. I would say that Premier League coverage accounts for the best part of 50% of Sky’s subscriptions. If Sky lost the Premier League, they would be devastated. Customers would leave them in droves. By contrast, the Premier League has plenty of other suitors who would leap at the chance to fill Sky’s place. The Premier League is a global TV phenomenon. The thirst for PL coverage around the world is astonishing – hence the massive new global TV rights deals the PL recently signed.

    On the subject of attendances, I far prefer to take official statistics (which are accurate and easily verifiable these days, since the advent of all seater stadia) than your back of a beer mat guesstimates, arrived at on the basis of your impression of a few matches watched on television. I know which has the more credibility (and – here’s a clue – it isn’t yours) 😉 . As to whether or not season ticket holders at some stadiums were included in the attendance even though they didn’t always turn up, it makes no difference to this particular discussion. We’re talking about gate receipts – and since the seats in question were bought and paid for, it matters not to the clubs whether or not they are actually occupied for every game.

  27. I wouldn’t believe everything I read in the laptop loyalist Scottish media regarding Celtic if I were you!
    Any ‘supposed’ benefactor in the case of Keane was never named and infact it was reported by a usually reliable source just this week that Spurs themselves actually paid 80% of Keanes wages for the half season he was at Celtic Park.
    Dermot Desmond is a shareholder at the club, all be it the majority shareholder, but a shareholder just the same and as any Celtic supporter will testify, he most certainly doesn’t pump money into the club, infact quite the opposite and the majority of the Celtic support would gladly see the back of him in favour of someone who treated the club as more than a rich mans play thing!!

  28. SKY TV is your Life Blood – perleeeeeeeeeaaaase! Now, all of a sudden, the English not wanting the Old Firm in the Premier League is a racial issue? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Probably the most risible, preposterous suggestion I’ve ever seen on the internet – and that’s really saying something because the competition is fierce!

    No, fella, it’s got nothing to do with race. I’m sorry that demographics are holding you back. Really, I am. My heart bleeds for you. But it won’t alter the undeniable truth. Rangers and Celtic are Scottish clubs. They have always played in the Scottish leagues. They owe their success and their legions of fans to the 100+ year virtual duopoly that they have enjoyed in Scotland. Scottish football is what made them the behemoths that they are. Now that they have grown fat on that duopoly but see no further nourishment in it, they are prepared to toss Scottish football away like a gnawed bone? How insufferably arrogant and selfish.

    Whether you like it or not, the Old Firm DON’T have a right to play in the Premier League. That much is self evident. It’s why they are entirely dependent upon the agreement of the Premier League.

    Rangers and Celtic might well both be bigger clubs than Spurs but, frankly, I couldn’t give a damn (though I would dispute your claim that Rangers have a better European pedigree). It won’t change the fact that they’re both Scottish clubs. Not English. That’s all that matters. The Old Firm have as much right to play in the Premier League as AC Milan, Barcelona or Sporting Braga.

    Lastly, Dermot Desmond saying that the Old Firm will join the Premier League means four fifths of bugger all. Just worthless posturing. The Premier League clubs have always voted overwhelmingly against the proposal. And there is nothing to suggest that they are about to perform a complete volte face on the matter.

  29. Max – so we’re supposed to disbelieve and reject a whole raft of different newspaper reports (just google Robbie Keane Dermot Desmond)?

    OK. Fair enough.

    But then you ask us to believe an unnamed but “usually reliable source” that Spurs paid 80% of Keane’s wages?

    I don’t think so!

  30. celtic in the e p l will happen dont think the shame will get a invite

  31. chaz – neither will get the invite. But, as a matter of interest, why would you think that Celtic would get an invite but Rangers wouldn’t – prejudice aside?

  32. You obviously believe whatever the rags say, because you read it in the papers it must be true!
    Have you read anything from either Celtic or Spurs concerning the financial agreement that brought Keane to Celtic?
    Your own words, “I don’t think so” says alot!
    You don’t think so because you don’t know!
    The so called ‘sports journalists are/were very much in the same boat, there was no official statement about the financial agreement between both clubs, and as far as I know there never has been.
    So basically they know just about as much as you or I, but they must sell their rags and in doing so will jump to any assumption or conclusion to fit their own mind-set.
    I couldn’t count the amount of times they have made a total @rse of themselves in their efforts at pretending they know more than the normal punter.
    Celtic and I would suggest Spurs play their cards very close to their chests when it comes to financial affairs and the media, as far as Celtic are concerned, are on a strict need to know basis.
    The 80% quote came from a very well respected Celtic site, who generally in the past have been bang on, and I would definitely believe anything they reported before I would believe anything I read from David Murrays lickspittles in the Scottish media.

    What they don’t know they generally just make up, if I believed everything I read in the English press England would have won EVERY World Cup since 1966 at a canter!!

  33. Max – you should try reading more carefully, fella. You would save yourself a lot of time and effort if you did.

    Instead of going off on one about me believing everything I read in the rags, you might instead have taken just a few seconds to digest my response to your previous post. Now, I don’t know what “OK. Fair enough” means to you……..but to the remainder of the English speaking world, it means acceptance of another’s point of view. On your say so, I was prepared to doubt the veracity of the newspaper reports about Keane’s loan to Celtic because I have seen all too often how wide of the mark the press can be when reporting on Spurs.

    So try being a little less hasty next time, eh?

    As to this so called source on this “very well respected” Celtic site, forgive me for being as dismissive about it as you are of newspapers. To paraphrase your summation of the press, if I believed everything I read from highly respected ITK’s, I would think that Spurs had signed Messi, Xavi, Kaka, Sneijder, Milito and Ronaldo in the past couple of transfer windows!

  34. I’m a Celtic fans and I think both the billionaires on the Celtic board should just invest 50million each not like the need it lol and do a man city kill rangers off and win the cl and forget about the epl. Simple

    Hail Hail

  35. right first thing it was the best leauge in the world then ronaldo pissed off then came the world cup need i say more now it is the most entertaining leaugue in the world maybe for the top 5 beating the easy beats people will get fed up watching that dros giving 60mil to blackpool is just a joke and yous know it sky will one day say lets give the money to teams with real history and thats why celtic will get asked down

  36. @Jim B. Rangers and Celtic better in europe? We’ve won more european trophies than Rangers and Celtic put together. Fair enough Celtic won the European cup once but They are in it every year so you’d expect a nfar better return than that from a big club. English cllubs have won it something like 11 times since then and if we’d been in it every season I’m sure we’d have a few. In the one season we were in it we got to the semi finals.

  37. chaz – regardless of the fact that it isn’t Sky’s decision and the fact that Premier League chairmen are almost unanimously against the proposal, the question was: why, hypothetically, would the Premier League invite Celtic and not Rangers?

  38. jim am a celtic fan a dont give a hoot about ur club

  39. Tim – I said that I DISPUTED the claim that Rangers had a better European pedigree. Spurs have won three European trophies to their one. And we too have lost a UEFA Cup final (in addition to a few other semi finals and quarter finals). We also made it to the European Cup semi final in 1961 (six years before Celtic) and might well have won it but for some very highly controversial and very suspicious officiating in the semi final against Benfica.

    Nevertheless, winning the European Cup even once is worth more than three lesser European trophies. I’d certainly swap our three for one European Cup. Wouldn’t you? So, for that reason, I have no problem accepting the claim that Celtic have a greater European pedigree than Spurs. I believe that Celtic also lost a subsequent European Cup final in the early 70’s.

  40. chaz – you’re not very good at comprehending what others have written are you? I didn’t mention Spurs in my post to you. I only asked – since you made the claim – why you thought the Premier League would invite Celtic to join, but not Rangers. Do you have an answer or do you just have more inarticulate drivel, as in post 38?

  41. Fair do’s JimB, I just can’t understand what you find so ludicrous about Spurs paying 80% of keanes wages.
    Keane has always stated quite clearly, even whilst playing for Celtic, that he was a Spurs player first and foremost, but he was obviously not happy to be warming the bench, if he even got that, for a season while playing for them (or not!).
    Although Keane is a player Spurs were keen to retain, Spurs were quite happy about letting him out on loan, (an unhappy player at any club is not good, but were unsurprisingly not so keen on letting him out on loan to an EPL competitor.
    It’s no secret that Keane is a childhood lifelong Celtic fan and was desperate to achieve the lifelong ambition of pulling on the famous Hoops.
    So Spurs make the deal that makes everyone happy, they pay 80% wages for a player they were paying a 100% wages to sit on the bench, if not the stand, the player is happy with his club, Spurs, for allowing him the opportunity of playing for his childhood heroes, and maybe more importantly is happy to return to his club afterwards and Celtic get the use of a player, they obviously couldn’t afford to pay, for half a season and also make a decent buck in merchandising to boot.
    It makes perfect sense to me.

  42. Yeah, would possibly rather have a european cu than 2 eufa and one CWC but like I say you’re in it every season so statistically that is a poor return. Becuase we have greater competition we aren’t in it any where near as much and we’ve still won more trophies than Rangers and Celtic put together. How many european games have they racked up between them? Therefore I would definitely say we have the superior record. Anyway, gone off topic a bit but I recognise Celtic and Rangers are massively supported clubs, but the EPL thing won’t happen. To be honest I’m surprised Celtic and Rangers fans would want it. Surely being proud Scots you’d want to stay in a Scottish league? Or is the chance to give the English a kicking too irresistable? LOL

  43. Tim – one other thing re European pedigree. The only time that Spurs have ever met either Old Firm club in European competition, we gave the Gers a bit of a tonking, home and away, on the way to becoming the first British club to win a European trophy, in 1963!

  44. I think what chaz is refering to is the hun supports disiplinary record when playing outwith Scotland.
    If you want to talk about European performances rangers supporters record is second to none.
    Birmingham, Barcelona (x2), Villereal, Romania, Osassuna, and many many more including the disgrace to Scotland, Glasgow, rangers and the sport itself that was Manchester, culminating in the atempted murder of two police officers.
    You only have to look at the precautions for the up and coming Man U game to realise just how welcome these “peepel” are in the City of Manchester.
    Would we have to expect the same kind of precautions at every Rangers away game should they be permited to play in the EPL?
    BTW Celtic have fair play endorsment from both UEFA ans FIFA for our supports good behaviour and in contrast to Manchester, after our EUFA Cup final in Seville the Mayor of Seville took out a full page in the Glasgow Evening times to thank the Celtic support for making the final such a great occassion and welcoming us, our friends and families back at anytime in the future. (the Spanish press called rangers supporters “embarrassing lowlife drunkards” and invited them to “stay at home and urinate in the corners of their own livingrooms”!)

  45. Max – yes the idea of Spurs paying 80% of Keane’s wages all sounds perfectly plausible in theory. My quibble was more with your source for the information. You can’t, on the one hand, expect me to accept your request not to believe the papers but then, on the other, expect me to believe an anonymous source on an internet message board. You do see the inconsistency, I hope?

    For what it’s worth, the biggest problem with your theory is that it doesn’t tally with what we know of Daniel Levy at all. He is a notoriously tough negotiator – almost to the point of working against his own best interests at times. I doubt that he would ever have agreed to a deal such as you are suggesting. I can believe that Spurs continued to pay a proportion of Keane’s wages. But not 80%.

    50%………..and we have a deal!

  46. Max – let’s not allow this discussion to degenerate into an Old Firm propaganda war. This isn’t the place. I’m sure that there are quite enough forums on the internet for such discussions. And I’m equally sure that, if we had a Rangers fan posting here, they would counter with all manner of shameful tales of Celtic fans’ various transgressions……and then you, chaz and the rest would strenuously deny it all and……….you know how it goes. Never ending. So let’s not go there!

    But I think you’re right to suggest that this is the kind of thing that chaz was referring to. I just wanted to kow if he had any other reason to offer as to why Celtic would be invited and not Rangers.

  47. back in the Eighties Sky Tv made no secret of the fact that they would love to have a team from Dublin playing in the EPL. There is no doubt that Celtic with a support which comprises mostly people of Irish heritage and native Irish would be a grade A product for TV companies like SKY and particularly ESPN the American network for the big Irish diaspora in the U.S. They would wet themselves at the thought of Celtic taking on the big boys in the EPL. Dermot Desmond and that other billionaire and eltic shareholder Denis O’Brien may have designs of buying into these TV networks.

  48. well said max

  49. Sorry JimB but it is relevant.
    Rangers supporters record I’m sure would play some part in any decision on whether they would be allowed to join the EPL or not, infact there was ‘a story’ (sic) that after the last knock back Celtic had been aproached on the quiet and told if they made an individual request it would be seen in a more sympathetic light.

    But hey Jim we all know about these “anonymous sources” ;O)

  50. ray – for starters, as rich as Desmond is, he doesn’t have anything like the wealth to be able to buy enough of Sky or ESPN to dictate policy. But more pertinently, I repeat that the decision is not Sky’s or ESPN’s to make. It is entirely a decision to be made by the 20 Premier League chairmen. And they have consistently delivered an overwhelming “No” to any proposal for Rangers and Celtic to join the Premier League via any route.

    Believing that these chairmen are about to perform a complete u turn is just wishful thinking.

  51. Max – absolutely! You know precisely what I think about stories that are entirely without substance!

    As I’ve said before, neither club is welcome in the Premier League. Neither belongs here – whether in tandem or on their own. They belong in Scotland – where they have always been; where they became the great clubs that they are.

  52. Should clubs continue to stuggle and should some clubs in Scotland and England perhaps go under…. then their is a realistic argument that England would take them. Football is on the brink of a serious financial fall. When Barca are borrowing money to pay players you have to take notice! Depending on how many clubs go under – or how many English clubs pull back from the brink will be the major factors. Of course security is a risk and Rangers fans don’t travel well.

    Do I think they would be a good addition? Very much so. Celtic and Rangers home and away would be magnificent. Wigan? Reading? Watford? Blackpool? Lets be honest – it would be fresh and exciting!!

    Do I think it will happen? I really believe that with the amount of clubs on the brink it will happen in the next 5 – 10 years. – not the EPL but England 3rd/4th div I have no doubt!!

  53. Absolutely Jim, I’ve on occassion been known to read some of David Marrays laptop loyalist poodles in what passes in Scotland for Sports journalism.
    If you’ve read these ‘journos’ over the past week or so you’ll realise that out of the 3 million rangers supporters who went to Manchester for the cup final, infact only somewhere in the region of 50 or so actually rioted.
    I’m sure the good people of Manchester will be relieved to hear this great news.
    And of course it was al dpown to heavy handed policing and a broken telly.
    In Romania it was because of heavy handed (Gypsy) policing and 2 unopened turnstyles.
    In Bucharest it was because of heavy handed policing, although both Motherwell and Liverpool seemed to have no problems last season!
    In Osasuna it was because of heavy handed policing.
    (you begining to see a patern here Jim?)

    Oh!, and in Villereal where a brick was thrown through the Villereal team bus window, “some other big boys done it and ran away Mr”.

  54. Ps. I’d also like to point out something that most Spurs fans might find important.
    During the huns game against Hapoel Tel Aviv (please excuse is my spelling is incorrect) in Israel, the straight right arm salute with an open straight hand, which rangers supporters don’t deny doing, was not a Nazi salute, but was infact a “red hand salute” that the rangers support though they would make up especially for the occassion.
    And there was me thinking old Adolf was an Austrian!
    Go figure!!

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